Resooney ronney:Swahilish
Nagh vel "Çhengaghyn Tanzania" ny "Çhengaghyn Hanzania" ny share myr ennym y ronney shoh? Ta Tanzania ny ennym kinjagh, gyn yn olt. T'eh shen, cha nel eh goaill ymmyd jeh "yn" roish ennym ny çheerey. Cre er lhiat? --MacTire02 22:43, 15 Mart 2010 (UTC)
- Ach, va mee son shen y resooney, agh ren mee jarrood. Kiart ayd, mannagh vel yn olt ayn, shegin dooin yn ennym y chaghlaa. Va mee son feyshtey uss roish my ren mee y ronney shen fo aggle dy jinnin marranys. Tybed cre'n fa nagh vel yn olt eck? -- Shimmin Beg 06:50, 16 Mart 2010 (UTC)
- Ta Tanzania cosoylagh rish Burundee, Rooandey, Sostyn, Nalbin, Nerin, a.r.e. T'eh shen, ta'n ennym ny ennym kinjagh gyn ymmyrçh er yn olt. She cooish er lheh Nalbin, er yn oyr nagh vel olt ayn 'sy lhieggan ennymagh, agh dy vel olt ayn 'sy lhieggan gienneydagh (Nalbin -> ny h-Albey). Cha nel fys aym cre'n fa dy vel yn olt ry-akin 'sy ghienneydagh, agh t'eh ayn 'sy Yernish as 'sy Ghaelg Albinagh chammah. Rere y taabyl shoh:
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- Mie dy liooar. Er lhiam dy vel mee er n'akin shenn lioar as Yn Albin, Yn Erin ayn. Va mee credjal dy nee shen bun ny cummaghyn heose, 'syn aght cheddin as "'syn" as e lheid. -- Shimmin Beg 09:34, 16 Mart 2010 (UTC)
- Gow my leshtal, agh ta mee credjal dy vel eh ny share eh shen dy screeu ayns Baarle. It is my opinion that Yn Erin and Yn Albin were never used and were simply a misinterpretation. Scotland in Scots Gaelic is Alba, Ireland in Irish is Éire. These are both in the nominative case and are inherently definite (do not take the article). When we use the dative case (in, to, at, towards, etc.) we use the old dative case of those words (long since gone but still visible as a relic in this case amongst others). This changes the words to Albain and Éirinn respectively. While the genitive case renders the words as na h-Alba and na hÉireann. The Irish and Scots Gaelic word for "in" without the article is "i" (sa = i + art; 'sy in Manx), but this "i" (ayns in Gaelg) becomes "in" before a vowel. So to say "in Scotland" becomes in Albain, "in Ireland" becomes in Éirinn. I believe what happened is that "in Scotland" became i nAlbain in Manx, and "in Ireland" became i nÉirinn and eventually ins nAlbain and ins nÉirinn (ayns Nalbin, ayns Nerin) respectively. Now for the genitive: Manx retained the na h-Alba version because it was sufficiently different from the Alba, Albain constructions. Basically this never changed, even if the name for Scotland underwent transformation from Alba to Nalbin. If we look at the case of Ireland, the genitive is na hÉireann which, linguistically speaking, is not terribly far from in Éirinn. I believe that the two simply merged which is why we have Nerin (nom.) ayns Nerin (dat.) and Nerin (gen.) (e.g. Nerin, ayns Nerin, Pobblaght Nerin). The ins construction (I'm not sure about Scots Gaelic) comes from the Irish ins which can be used in place of sa together with the definite article in certain dialects in Ireland, e.g. ins an bhaile or ins a' bhaile ("ayns y valley").
- This change of names is common in the Gaelic languages. The names Éire, Alba, and Mannin are actually old Irish feminine u-stem words and were originally written Ériu (cf. Gaelic Goddess), Albu, Manu. The dative was Érinn, Albain, Manainn. Irish then repurposed the dative of Albu and Manu and started using them as the nominative, while changing the u-stem in Éiriu to -e (Ériu becomes Éire) but retained the dative, and purpose, of Érinn (modern Éirinn). Scots Gaelic did likewise, using Éireann as the new nominative for Ireland, but keeping the old u-stem (rehashed as Albu -> Alba) for Scotland. Manx simply dropped the nominative altogether using the dative as the nominative in all cases (Nalbin, Nerin, Mannin). --MacTire02 10:42, 16 Mart 2010 (UTC)
- Gow my leshtal, agh ta mee credjal dy vel eh ny share eh shen dy screeu ayns Baarle. It is my opinion that Yn Erin and Yn Albin were never used and were simply a misinterpretation. Scotland in Scots Gaelic is Alba, Ireland in Irish is Éire. These are both in the nominative case and are inherently definite (do not take the article). When we use the dative case (in, to, at, towards, etc.) we use the old dative case of those words (long since gone but still visible as a relic in this case amongst others). This changes the words to Albain and Éirinn respectively. While the genitive case renders the words as na h-Alba and na hÉireann. The Irish and Scots Gaelic word for "in" without the article is "i" (sa = i + art; 'sy in Manx), but this "i" (ayns in Gaelg) becomes "in" before a vowel. So to say "in Scotland" becomes in Albain, "in Ireland" becomes in Éirinn. I believe what happened is that "in Scotland" became i nAlbain in Manx, and "in Ireland" became i nÉirinn and eventually ins nAlbain and ins nÉirinn (ayns Nalbin, ayns Nerin) respectively. Now for the genitive: Manx retained the na h-Alba version because it was sufficiently different from the Alba, Albain constructions. Basically this never changed, even if the name for Scotland underwent transformation from Alba to Nalbin. If we look at the case of Ireland, the genitive is na hÉireann which, linguistically speaking, is not terribly far from in Éirinn. I believe that the two simply merged which is why we have Nerin (nom.) ayns Nerin (dat.) and Nerin (gen.) (e.g. Nerin, ayns Nerin, Pobblaght Nerin). The ins construction (I'm not sure about Scots Gaelic) comes from the Irish ins which can be used in place of sa together with the definite article in certain dialects in Ireland, e.g. ins an bhaile or ins a' bhaile ("ayns y valley").
- Feer anaasoil, as foddym shen y chredjal dy mie. Myr dooyrt uss, s'cosoylagh dy nee meehoiggalys v'ayn - ta ram stoo neuvaghtal ayn bentyn rish y Ghaelg, gyn ourys. -- Shimmin Beg 17:33, 16 Mart 2010 (UTC)